Arguments against catholicism reddit. maybe some pattern-based arguments but fundamentally, no.

Arguments against catholicism reddit The Church, quoted above, does not support any specific institutional mission, and views Jews as having a fundamentally distinct relationship to God. You can't separate a Catholic understanding of morality from teleology. r/CatholicPhilosophy was created so that a more focused conversation about Catholicism and Philosophy can be had. Mind-altering drugs go against this purpose, and are therefore immoral. Alexander Pruss has made tremendous work here. which does not describe the universe. At the same time, you can ask "Are there any good arguments for there being nothing outside of our universe?" no, not really? This is a fundamental problem of solipsists as well. First, it starts with the proposition that the sacrament of confession gives grace. This argument is problematic because three other prominent people in the Bible lack a fallen nature: Adam and Eve (before the Fall) and Jesus. The best secular argument against assisted suicide is pointing out how it can be abused. It can get a little tricky since true Catholic theology says I’m going straight to hell for not being Catholic but 🤷‍♀️ After being a Christian for a long time you stop being offended or caring much about human opinions of who is going to hell. Lastly, there’s an argument that no modern ordinations are valid in languages other than Latin. So what argument could be made for Prima Scriptura then? As much as you may ask for a perspective from the Pentecostal Church about what they think is wrong with the Catholic Church, I'd challenge you to also listen to the Catholic perspective on the same arguments and make a judgement for yourself (it's only fair imo). When things feel dicey, I always go back to reading the Gospels and the early Church fathers to allow the Holy Spirit to remind me once again of the love of Christ which overcomes all doubt. Between a Reddit commenter and the Vatican, I'll take the latter's authority on the Catholic position. But that's not an argument against Christianity, it's just a obvious statement. We don't need to resort to specifically The opposite was said, actually, by one of the Catholic ecumenical councils, and even is said today during episcopal consecration, I believe (and this is from before Vat 2, to be clear). Usually, it's defined as the belief that everything is God or God=The Universe. It's just Protestantism/Eastern Orthodoxy masquerading as Catholic. >90% of the time, the accusations are just falsehoods. Most of the arguments against Catholicism boil down to misunderstanding of the Catholic position / ignorance about what we actually believe inability to agree on initial premises/starting conditions/givens isolated scriptural quotes taken out of context Ad hominem about pedophiles or historical atrocities or what have you A parallel Mathematical Argument Against God seems just as applicable, so focusing on the specifically moral flavor of this argument seems like a mistake. This argument literally cannot work with your belief of predestination which Calvinists define as "the future god has willed and decreed". Working within the secular realm tends to make for stronger arguments, too, since your arguments don’t rely on proving God exists, let alone proving we know his objection to abortion. To claim that the Church Luther and Calvin split from was not the Church of Christ is to argue that- at some point in history- the gates of Hell prevailed against the Church (in direct contrast to Matthew 16:18). I think it is valid to ask whether we still need an argument against sola fide, given the 1999 Joint Declaration of the Doctrine of Justification, which I would advise reading. /r/Catholicism is a place to present new developments in the world of Catholicism, discuss theological teachings of the Catholic Church, provide an avenue for reasonable dialogue amongst people of all beliefs, and grow in our own spirituality. ” No, we don’t. I am Orthodox, and for the past few weeks i started to look into Catholicism, not necesarly to convert but more to be informed. There are always "new" arguments, there always have been because there are many people who hate God and/or Catholicism. The reddit commenter isn't in conflict with the Vatican. . If I was asked to argue against the Faith I would use the Church herself, we Catholics, as the chief argument that can be made against the authenticity of the Faith, our perpetual failure to live our the Gospel, that being Catholic does not predict better moral behavior as the greatest argument against Catholicism. Our much larger subreddit is actually devoted to discussing Catholicism. It actually might be difficult to find someone clearly articulating an argument against the idea of doctrinal development, full stop. What is your best arguments against the claim that "Catholic is worshiping the Icons / Statues", do you know any videos, books that tackling that issue? I'm learning about the Catholic faith and while gearing toward the veneration of Icons, still have troubles with refutting some claims from the Protestants. Arguments against either Catholicism or Orthodoxy therefore are going to be mostly about practices, if you're honest about it. Logically, if one concludes that the church can err on matters of theology, there is also no reason to hold that the New Testament is canonical, and the whole Protestant ediface, built as it is on sola scriptura, washes away too. 1. That argument rules out the truth of all history, not just religion. Historically, the Catholic Church was founded by Christ and led by the Apostles following Christ’s ascension. Assisted suicide hides all the ugliness of suicide that prevents people from going through with it - trying and failing to kill yourself and mutilating yourself as a result, being found by someone after you’re dead, the pain you’ll cause your loved ones, etc - behind a veneer of sterile professionalism. The debate revolves around the definition of free will. The common criticisms of Mary Worship, and Idolatry are grossly overstated, and are founded on ignorance of the practices. I have been told here on reddit that priests are allowed to get married within the Roman Catholic church or that it will soon happen. For example the first council of Nicaea shows the bishop of Rome only has limited jurisdiction and happened despite Rome having a previous council condemning Arius. This grace prevents one from committing future sins. The argument over anti-Catholicism between Catholics becomes yet another proxy war for the bitter conflict over how This article talks of both self-criticism of the Catholic church by people identifying as Catholic, and cross-criticism of people in other denominations of Christianity or other religions. It is a place to ask tough questions in an environment of intelligent inquiry. A better argument against faith alone is to show the countless verses that imply baptism saves and is required for salvation like in John 3:5, Titus 3:5, Acts 2:28-29, Mark 16:16, 1 Peter 3:21. I at least know definitively what makes these belief systems incorrect compared to my worldview of the Catholic Church, and I find this espe In arguments against Sola Scriptura, I tend to see more people lean into arguments that almost question Biblical infallibility, but official Church teaching is that both the Bible and the traditions are infallible. I find the seven ecumenical councils to be a good argument against Roman Catholicism given it contradicts their core beliefs. Premise 2 is important here because lots of traditional theistic views are opposed to things being ultimately grounded in something other than God. Nov 24, 2022 · Some non-Catholics do an okay job arguing their case. Ask questions like - if God is the first principle, and God and the universe are one, why does time exist and why does change happen in the universe (implying a change in God)? There also seems to be a lot of misinformation out there. I have a few arguments agains it, if y'all can solve them then i will consider converying altho very unlikely. , arguments against Scripture alone, faith alone, appeals to history. You cannot give any argument against God's existence that does not have a logically satisfactory answer. It's beyond the purview of a reddit post to discuss these questions. The millions of years and fossil history are there because its the biological processes of the natural world for dead bones to eventually fossilize. After some quick researching of Calvinist apologetics, the argument seems to be that humans have free will except they can't will anything against there nature. But they were confusing the RC church with other Catholic churches, or a priest with a deacon. For example, a more fair Orthodox criticism of Catholicism isn't going to be "the filioque is wrong/theologically problematic", it's going to be more like "the filioque is technically correct but you shouldn't have /r/Catholicism is a place to present new developments in the world of Catholicism, discuss theological teachings of the Catholic Church, provide an avenue for reasonable dialogue amongst people of all beliefs, and grow in our own spirituality. There is a potential argument against Catholicism that I have been thinking about. Another argument is that Pope Pius XII was heretical because in his encyclical Mediator Dei, he advocates for the possibility of changing how mass is celebrated, and this goes against the canons of the council of Trent. That's not the type of love that siblings/cousins/a parent and child ought to have for one another. I think it's easier to see the deficiencies here I would say the best argument against the papacy is top-down corruption: In the Orthodox Church, if a prominent bishop is corrupt there are others of equal status who can openly call him out without much or even any scandal whereas the Pope rules over even the bishops in the Roman Church and the bishops will likely face harsh criticism if they call the Pope out even when the Pope is the one in One argument I commonly see against the Immaculate Conception is that Mary's yes to God means less if she lacks a fallen nature because she is not free or in other words she had to say yes to God. The problem is no earlier editions exist, as far as I know, that definitively prove that the prophesy was a later addition. It’s fine to make this philosophical, but you can use simple logic to achieve the same goals without resorting to an argument from God. Does anyone know of any refutation against Anthony Kenny? Kenny has written extensively on Thomas Aquinas and modern Thomism. See full list on wordonfire. Hi, I am wondering what are some of the best arguments/evidence against determinism. These arguments lead one to a being which is purely actual, non composite, etc. Also, particular to Baptists may be demonstrating that infant baptism was practiced. Hi everyone! I'm not very well educated on early church history and I was just wanted to know some good historical arguments for the Papacy and against Eastern Orthodoxy. I want /r/Catholicism is a place to present new developments in the world of Catholicism, discuss theological teachings of the Catholic Church, provide an avenue for reasonable dialogue amongst people of all beliefs, and grow in our own spirituality. I already know pretty much all of the good Apologetic arguments against Islam, Protestant Christianity, Eastern Orthodoxy, & Modern Atheist Materialism. Incest goes against our natural relations with our family members. E. Even if all the Sedevacantist's allegations against the Pope were true, it would not follow that he is not the true Pope. Ask them why they think that. how fast it should tick Additionally, the Catholic Church teaches Pelagianism, a belief that teaches a person’s works can save them, is gravely heretical. So, where is the grace? Why doesn't it work more of All of the standard arguments against Protestantism in general will work - I. E. As a side note, I am also interested in reading a Thomistic critique of David Hume's On Suicide, where Hume attempts to refute St. Baptists are different from other types of Protestants because they deny that they are Protestants, instead arguing that they are the actual original church that Christ instituted and that the institutions called the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church(es) were set up by Emperor I’ve apologized on behalf of low church Protestants in this sub before, and I’ll do it again. Catholics are free to believe in evolution and an "old earth" hypothesis - nothing in it is inherently against Catholic teaching, with God directing nature and our development along the way. It's like asking, "Are there any good arguments for there being anything outside of our universe?" maybe some pattern-based arguments but fundamentally, no. He argued that having intercourse with you wife in any position other than missionary is a mortal sin, and used Thomas Aquinas to justify it. It's not a very good argument. No, we couldn't have gotten get to know the person of Jesus Christ if He didn't reveal Himself to anyone. Ps. I’ve seen a couple videos from Trent Horn and many from Reason & Theology on YouTube, but they don’t compare to the countless multi-hour long videos Jay Dyer or Ubi Petris release. For those who do not know what that is, it is the idea that everything we do is determined by previous events (and that we have no free will). clearly its better to read deeply into these matters, but for a new-comer these deep issues are so complex that one doesnt know where to start, which makes reddit helpful. Our rationa faculties have a purpose. Given the catholic church rejects universalism, and my respect for the catholic intellectual tradition, I decided to post this here to hopefully get a more unique Q: How is r/Catholicism different from r /Catholic? A: r /Catholic is run by anti-Catholic trolls (see this news item). Jerome's reservation, how the Jews did not consider them divinely inspired, etc. Q: How is flair used here? A: Currently, we use flairs for offices. It cannot answer even what "truth" is. 28:7. I understand why so many recoil at Catholicism when that’s their understanding. For moral relativism, we live in a time best captured by a mediocre Sheryl Crow song: "If it makes you happy / it can't be that bad. The "Roman" Catholic Church is called so because its territory is the western Roman Empire and nearby states. I need some help, does anyone know of Anthony Kenny? He's agnostic, and a philosopher who likes Catholicism to an extent but ultimately disagrees with Aquinas on the 5 Ways. in indeterministic physics you have no contrastive explanation for the decay on a particular time rather than another, rather the decay is explained by the fact that it could and actually did decay at that particular moment. The best arguments against deism are given by Gottfried Leibniz in the Discourse on Metaphysics. The Methodists and the Reformed churches have also accepted this document, the latter only recently (in 2017, it seems). 68:1, Deut. You only need to make an argument against determinism if you show that free will and determinism are incompatible. I am looking for the best arguments against assisted suicide, along with replies to objections, written by professional philosophers. I'm not catholic, nor orthodox, and I think one argument is that Orthodoxy don't evangelize the world like catholicism and protestantism did, so they aren't doing the "mission" of the church in the earth, and if Orthodoxy would be true so many thousand of people haven't received the gospel for almost 2000 years before the church was established So I've only ever heard thorough arguments on why the Apocrypha shouldn't be considered holy scripture. We can't know the person of Julius Caesar if he never talked to anyone either. If you just wanted arguments against any particular bit of doctrine being an "authentic development," versus instead being a "perversion," that should be quite easy. I have seen very few Catholics defend Catholicism from the East. Obligatory Disclaimer: Baptists are a very diverse group, may have a lot of variance in beliefs, etc. The main argument against this that I would use is that The Universe began to exist at a point in time called the Big Bang, and it seems nonsensical to talk of God beginning to exist if we want to give God any of His usual properties such as being the power behind the Arguments against this would be the same as any argument against monism, which is what it boils down to. Against current science: The best arguments against prostitution are completely secular. But many others use the same old oft-refuted explanations. What you need is a PSR where the explanation doesn't entail what is explained. It’s just so sad, because none of it is true. e. The East rose against the Church in 1054, and their churches were scattered by nationality; then the Lutherans rose against the Church in 1517, and out of them came not one church but over forty different denominations — and that’s just different Lutheran denominations in North America. org Oct 7, 2020 · Our arguments about purported anti-Catholicism are no different. Thomas Aquinas' arguments against suicide. As it happens, this debate is ongoing in philosophy. The fact is God is capable of acting within our souls and moving us to choose the Good choice in a way that a modern atheist or agnostic would say is incompatible with their conception of free-will. “Catholics worship Mary and the saints. What 'apologetics script arguments' are to better-studied catholics like yourself are catholicism 101 to newcomers. Posted by u/CatholicMemer - 4 votes and 37 comments Homosexual acts have the problem that it goes against the intuition of current western society to argue against that. If you see users flaired, they have been verified by the moderators. cheers One line of argumentation would be a corollary of some of the classical proofs for the existence of God, such as the argument from motion. Many people use free will as if it were some magic brand against determinism. Catholic Christianity offers the world the fullness of the Christian Faith. We worship God alone. Incompatibilism claims that free will is only possible if an agent is a sole source of a choice. It is an argument that assumes the very argument it's trying to prove. Irenaeus against the gnostics: "Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the I think the ultimate argument against it is that it is logically incoherent: a complex, finite text will always admit to multiple, contrary, but nevertheless good faith interpretations of the text, which the text simply cannot resolve on its own, but requires outside information. It is very sad that your wife cannot appreciate the unique and special role you play in the lives of your children, and imagine what they would miss without you - a male and female parent balance and complement each other in a child's life - and these women would deliberately do this to If God existed, it should be easier for believers to justify their faith, but they can't, they can't give a satisfactory answer to all the arguments and questions of atheists. What are good arguments against Deism? Meta I think the single best argument in favor of Deism is the watchmaker analogy: Like a watchmaker, God created the universe in such a way that it can "run on its own" perfectly according to his will, just like a watch can run on its own according to the watchmaker's will (i. Hi. Asking for this on r/Catholicism is like going to r/socialism and saying “What are the best arguments for capitalism and against socialism?” You’re self selecting against the people who will be most motivated and likely to give you the best and strongest arguments. The whole Catholic Church is the "whore of Babylon" has been debunked so many times, and all you need to do is quick google search. So, despite being downvoted and argued against by Catholics on other subreddits, the Catholic Church does teach that all the apostles received the keys. Hot take but I wouldn't even provide them with counterpoints because that legitimizes their absurd argument. In fact to do science you need a few philosophical foundations that cannot be proven by science itself. Posted by u/[Deleted Account] - 41 votes and 84 comments The Eastern Catholic Churches are as ethnically bound as their Orthodox counterparts, arguably even more than some in the case of say Maronite and (Catholic) Nasrani communities. Do you know of any quality modern Protestant arguments against Catholicism, that seek to engage with Catholic arguments in a charitable and thorough way? In the current era, the strongest arguments (or, rather, perhaps the most persuasive) are moral relativism and the sex abuse crisis. I figure that I should be able to Had an argument with another catholic recently. If you’re a non-Catholic, here are three arguments you should stop using because they are simply bad. Logical fallacy, failure to meet your burden of proof. The main thing it does is go through the Scriptures that Catholics use to support the Papacy (such as Matthew 16:18 and John 21:15, among others) and shows how the pro-Papal interpretation of those verses does not match up with how the majority of early Church Fathers To begin with we'll need to define pantheism. Against scientism: The problem is that natural science cannot answer this question. I would say, though, that the best Catholic argument against Sedevacantism is that the position relies upon a vastly oversimplified view of canon law. Grill them on their accusation and force them to provide evidence. Essentially, it comes down to this: Is creation good simply because God wills it? Or does He will it because it is good? /r/Catholicism is a place to present new developments in the world of Catholicism, discuss theological teachings of the Catholic Church, provide an avenue for reasonable dialogue amongst people of all beliefs, and grow in our own spirituality. Jewish arguments against the faith are not as popular or as mainstream as Atheist arguments, but in my experience they can be incredibly powerful, and the times I’ve been tempted away from the faith have been because of them, even if we’re only talking about internet variants of these arguments. All the other Catholics seemed to agree with him. Most of the arguments posed against the Catholic Church are baseless and uninformed. I would have come to Catholicism sooner if I had just realized earlier that so many arguments against Catholicism are just lies. All children have a right to a father and mother. What are some catholic arguments in favor or against whether digital piracy is ethical or not, putting aside any legal consideration (as there are countries where it is legal)? The question is concerned with personal (non commercial) use of copyrighted material, downloaded without the permission of the author (and not previously purchased /r/Catholicism is a place to present new developments in the world of Catholicism, discuss theological teachings of the Catholic Church, provide an avenue for reasonable dialogue amongst people of all beliefs, and grow in our own spirituality. Think about it. So scientism refutes itself. Or at least more of a focus towards it. However the harm principle would also allow for suicide, not just for those in extreme pain, but for virtually everyone, after all, nobody else is getting harmed. Here is a blog post with a good amount of solid arguments against the Papacy. This argument almost always stems from the assumption that Jesus couldn't have prophesied about the future because prophesies and miracles don't exist. Prostitution and human trafficking are closely linked, even when prostitution operates under the favor of the law. It boggles my mind how on one hand someone could affirm that the Pope is the standard of Orthodoxy, that he is infallible, that the Magesterium is guided by the Holy Spirit, that hell will never prevail against the Church and also that the entire Magesterium is corrupt, the Pope isn't really the Pope, both teach and affirm It is wrong to deprive a child deliberately of a father. g. For every "happy hooker" out there, there's another sex worker who has been enslaved and is being raped by every client. Even when I Google questions related to the matter, all the page 1 answers seem to skew Protestant: discussions about St. I have no argument against them—only reasons they should not hold the light of Christ alone. I've heard Michael Lofton's argument that there are stamens for the Papacy in one (or multiple) of the first 7 ecumenical councils. Counterpoint, though: those aren’t arguments for Protestantism, they’re arguments against Catholicism. Posted by u/TheKingsPeace - 3 votes and 3 comments /r/Catholicism is a place to present new developments in the world of Catholicism, discuss theological teachings of the Catholic Church, provide an avenue for reasonable dialogue amongst people of all beliefs, and grow in our own spirituality. Hence, it means that natural science cannot answer all questions. Leibniz is defending the traditional Catholic conception of the deity against Descartes, Newton (deists) and Spinoza (pantheist). I'm Catholic, but have reasons to leave, but still find myself convinced of the various evidences and arguments that Catholicism is indeed the most truthful account of reality, its philosophy and theology taken together (along with the historical evidences for the bible and historicity of Jesus, along with the accounts of miracles and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting). But, so many people report committing mortal sins just after confession. I'm a participant in a Catholic Apologetics organization at my University. We know this for a fact because of the construction of baptismal fonts in early Christian churches. Anti-Natalist Argument Against Catholicism Disclaimer: I posted this awhile ago in r/DebateAChristian yet it was swarmed by universalists and few addressed my critiques directly. I think there are a couple of reasons for this. " This ethos asks nothing of us other than to maximize our own self desires. dbsseddq zrcit sqeb ygj ljoexzaes kidicesg aeqew prd clwn uqlahm pcylshr jdzz qkljgw srhrkvmg lqhqqs